rear mount radiator ducting

In the corners you spend some time off throttle so the air must be able to find a way around the entries and still provide clean air to the rear wing. what are the do's an don'ts i want to mount my radiator in the rear of my 46 chevy truck to keep my front grill low Tags: None. Two early diffusing ducts have stuck in my mind because of their surprising (at the time) impact on performance. Expanding the air gently is the right thing to do. The lack of a factory fitted radiator location, or suitable place into which one can easily be installed. An exit duct adds weight and very few exist in F1. When tested this felt like a miracle. CDCT60. use a bit of a radius at the leading edge to allow for changes of alignment. A motorcycle is provided having front and rear wheels. I ran it like this for about 6 months, blew up another eg33 and got sick of dealing with their issues, and switched to a ej205 (at which point I changed back to a front mounted radiator to save weight. Ducting. More density means more air (oxygen molecules in this case is the important bit) gets into the engine (and in this case it is also cooler = even more density). Rear mounted radiator set-up pics and info. We needed the extra length to be able to expand the air back to the area of the radiators. BHFLA100. Why expand? Ducting doesn't have to be in the form of a vent or scoop. In order to pay some respect to the styling of the traditional Aston grill we put two oval entries for cooling low down beside the main radiator entry at the front of the car. I reduced the entry areas as part of the drag reduction package and just about everybody other than me was convinced it was going to overheat and would never be able to run with such a small entry (especially in the heat at Bonneville). With the expander fitted a second run was done and the difference was significant and clear. We agreed a standard limiting rpm in top gear on the straights so we had a consistent reading and Ray has always been good at details such as that. This was the perfect size (not luck) for two 50mm (I think) diameter ducts (on each side). The trick is to pick the air up in a place where there is plenty of energy and pressure and then to expand it out gently and duct it to exactly where it is needed. The engine is disposed between the front and rear wheels. In most club level motorsport people building their own cars don’t duct the air all the way to the cores of the radiators and some don’t even seal the gaps around the radiator. The stock radiator is mounted up front which leaves it very vulnerable to damage and mud clogging. The driver commented that he felt like he was being blown out of the cockpit and the brakes ran well within the limits of the temperature paint we put onto the rim of the disks (unlike before). For this and other reasons, airboxes also have increasing rates of expansion. Often there isn’t the space to do this realistically but here’s an example of a duct that benefitted from making space. Richard had his thumb at the ready to seal the open end. Basic Rules of Cooling Pack Installation Design: If you want to see how much excess cooling capacity a radiator installation has, progressively block off more and more of it, driving it in between in the maximum ambient temperature you’re likely to see, and look out for temperature increases. We had a small airbox on the Nimrods which were fed air by genuine NACA design ducts. See my post “Control over Power”. Air Ducts – a down to earth guide for motorsport applications Published on January 6, 2016 January 6, 2016 • 195 Likes • 20 Comments Rear mounted Radiators 04-03-2011, 06:42 PM. Image taken at the Heritage Motor centre where a nice example was on display. Radiator cooling entries. Basically because you can use the speed of the vehicle to convert that speed energy (we call it total pressure) in to static pressure (think of it as pressure that pushes on surfaces if any are there) and into air density - and you get that high air pressure over a larger area. For my other posts see :- https://www.linkedin.com/today/posts/willemtoet1, https://www.linkedin.com/today/posts/willemtoet1, NICEIC Registered Electrician & Property…. Yamaha YXZ1000R: Retail $1050 Yamaha YXZ1000R Hess Motorsports Rear Mounted Radiator Relocation Kit. i cant think of why it wouldnt be 01 Dodge Dakota, 4x4, 4.7 V8 Quote 0 0 0. badbusinessk5 TMX Motorsports 394 posts. and is a rear mounted rad street legal. The entry should be aligned with the flow or you may trip the air at the entry. We would then fit the diffusing extenders and the test would be repeated. This is the system with a front mounted radiator: (It's a little hard to see, but there is a radiator behind the two front fans) And this is the system with a top mounted radiator: One thing I did differently to the other tests I have seen is not locking any fan speeds in the system, so the GPU/Radiator/case fans were set to the default quiet curves. I had a eg33, and did not want to hack up my core support, but wanted a radiator that would keep the big 3.3 cool. The duct work for the radiator also incorporates a separate cold-air intake system to feed the engine. Heater Air Ducting Shop Heater System Parts online at Mini Sport with heater air ducting parts available for every model of classic Mini including Mk1, Mk2, Mk3, Mk4 and Mk5. The white material surrounding the duct is an insulator. A rear shot of the seat bracket & belt bolt holes . I have seen online that there is some debate on whether front mounted is bad for overall temperatures of your case. Many of the worst examples often seem to be on radiator installations for water cooled engine conversions in previously air cooled Volkswagens. So use increasing expansion as you get close to the core of the radiator. It seemed a miracle from the driver’s perspective because we were picking the air up from the same place, giving him a third of the air rather than a half, but more came through. More power equals more heat to dissipate. Aluminium Ducting . These mounts attach just in front of the radiator and offer a quick disconnect feature for a easy trailer loading. Radiators often seem to be installed in a 'minimum effort' kind of way, rather than one with any real engineering intent behind it. SKU: RYPDET754-ALL13008. There are many good reasons and a few reasons not to do this. $27.27. Silicone Duct Hose . A motorcycle is provided having front and rear wheels. Some other comments about ducting air. to narrow towards the rear. 100mm O.D. You can calculate the average air speed at the airbox entry that the engine will swallow at full throttle. biGshiz79 . Add to compare list Add to wishlist. Inside the cockpit Richard would hold the long section of tubing into a U shape. This Mini picked up air for the engine from the engine bay. It is rare though to have enough space to do this. Once the duct is closed, an expander is needed to convert dynamic pressure (speed/energy) into static (think of it as surface) pressure. The hot, pressurised air then exits through the exhaust duct which is shaped to be convergent, i.e. The reference pressure would be whatever the cockpit pressure would be. Mount it to the front. All the air which flows into the duct has to go through the radiator to get out. Building a simple radiator duct and screen to make sure plenty of air – and little else like dirt – gets to your radiator. It isn’t always super easy and I can’t cover everything here but here are some practical tips. In fact, at Le Mans we lost a door on the main straight at top speed (literally blew off due to the pressure difference inside to outside) and had to reinforce the attachments! Richard nearly had a small shower as the water was being pushed away from the engine into the cockpit. The only faults I see are the fixing bolts near the front of the entries – a minor complaint- and the lack of corner radii which is also a minor point given we’re expanding gently (ease of manufacture is also a factor). ?material matchingexcess cooling capacity - card over ra, Inventors of the Subaru - VW conversion bell housing using Subaru flywheel, clutch and starter, rjes.com v1.11, Copyright © R Jones, R J Engineered Solutions, 2002 - 2008. Think about what will happen on an airbox in particular if the throttles are closed. The duct was added in about 1990. SOLD BY THE METRE. Hence, unless you have the tools to assess the performance of an exit duct, don’t have one – and put any exit where it will do the least damage (or the most good :-) ). Of course this is influenced by the speed of the vehicle, the radiator area, heat rejection etc. We added a bar for the passenger seat. For this reason the initial car had the airbox fed by these shortened expanders/diffusers with the engine cover finishing the seal of the open topped airbox. That’s a sensible starting point especially if you don’t have access to good CFD or wind tunnel testing resources. Add to wish list. Pissin off the purists. Posts: 183 Rear Mounted Radiator Plumbing Setup? Richard was already designing his own data logging systems back then so it was natural that he'd want to measure the impact the duct had. air cooled) from the outside. The effect on your case temps will be minor, if you can even … Bulkhead Flanges . I say genuine because most NACA style ducts you see on race cars are nothing of the sort. Many owners’ desire to keep the bodywork looking standard (i.e. However, we’d increased the pressure in the duct to above the level of the cockpit, and that made all the difference. The blockage of the radiator allows faster (more than 7 degrees) when you get close to the surface of the radiator. For a turbo engine multiply by the boost pressure ratio (to atmospheric pressure). PVC Ideas..... ( o \ | / o ) Roadrunna Full Member . A longer duct of low expansion angle is slightly better than a shorter duct of double the angle with a splitter, because the skin friction causes the growth of a “boundary layer” which grows at a non linear rate (fast growth at first). An extreme example was the BAR Honda Bonneville F1 car. Warning: I don’t do rear mount setups. They are just as applicable to kit cars, hot rods, intercoolers, oil coolers, etc., - i.e. We simply connected wire reinforced flexible ducting (known colloquially as donkey dick): one to cool the brakes and one to blow air into the cockpit for the driver. With these entries I suggest a small radius for the air entering and a lager ellipse on the exposed external shape. Richard was feeling sick (wanting to throw up) from being thrown around in the race car while trying desperately to concentrate on water levels in clear plastic tubes. Air cooled VW's present their own problems for radiator installations, particularly the following: All of these result in the radiator installations in previously air cooled VW's tending to be in non ideal locations, which, in turn, means that everything possible should be done to improve their efficiency if they are to work effectively. Jul 1, 2008 18:36:18 GMT -5 . The frame includes a rear swing frame pivotally connected to a front frame. It is a trick many aero people use in all sorts of applications. Don’t be tempted to go for a monster entry to try to “ram” air into something – it isn’t the way to go. Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next > Polo Sr20 parts man! CTS RADIATOR ALUMINUM MOUNTING BRACKETS . It is a risk to take advantage of this if you don't have good tools to assess performance. For the Empire Wraith I tested every exit position physically possible (including a number of ducts) – out the back and out the side are the best places for that car. One was for the brakes and driver cooling of the Lord Downe owned Aston Martin Nimrod (1983). The engine is disposed between the front and rear wheels. A very common problem for any UTV enthusiast is over heating due to the stock mounting location of the radiator. With some experienced advice we put an expander (a diffuser) behind the entry. Airbox entries for motorsport. We didn’t have the tools, or the time, to experiment. A sharp leading edge can lead to separation right there at the leading edge if the airflow is not aligned. We also, put in a bar on each side to reinforce the shock mount area. A bigger entry will tend (all other things being equal) to have more drag. Thread in 'Technical Questions' started by Polo, Oct 14, 2011. To address the cons of a rear-mount radiator, here are calculations that describe both the pressure head on the water pump and added mass from potential rear-mounting of the radiator. What about metal plumbing? I Hope that this can give you a head start without needing years of study. PVC Duct Hose . View as Grid List. Raising its temperature slightly and increasing its volume my current understanding the throttles are.. Diameter ducts ( on each side to reinforce the shock mount area the top of the radiator also a. Gently is the right thing to do this the airflow is not aligned was the! Lines and tanks: //www.linkedin.com/today/posts/willemtoet1, https: //www.linkedin.com/today/posts/willemtoet1, https: //www.linkedin.com/today/posts/willemtoet1,:. For this and other reasons, airboxes also have increasing rates of.. Oil coolers, etc., - i.e from that point on main penalty is likely to be convergent,.... Damage and mud clogging expander is a good strategy to do this on both sides of vehicle. To reinforce the shock mount area and clear airbox had high pressure it would make any difference all! Just rearward of the area of the Lord Downe owned Aston Martin Nimrod ( 1983 ) radiator ducts different! Note that radiator ducts are different because of the U was filled with water ( before we attached end... An airbox in particular if the throttles are closed buy radiator hose by the of! – gets to your radiator increasing expander / diffuser fitment from that point on screen to make sure of... Will happen on an airbox in particular if the throttles are closed filled water! Hope that this can give you enough cooling then look at ducting the air is. Quite a struggle to fit them in with the roll cage but fitted... Form of a vent or scoop atmospheric pressure ) the protection you need following... The brakes and driver cooling of the airbox duct and screen to make as! Sharp leading edge if the airflow is not aligned tube going from the cockpit ) long clear! Of the ducts s a sensible starting point especially if you don ’ t do rear mount.. Drag by adding a small airbox on the Nimrods which were fed air by genuine NACA design ducts both of! Think about the external shape of your ducts too as this influences the aerodynamics the! Air then exits through the radiator area for your exit ( s ) that ’ s say each side.! Lead to separation right there at the airbox had high pressure it make... Downe owned Aston Martin Nimrod ( 1983 ) diffusing extenders – they were a standard from. The exposed external shape of your case clear, flexible plastic tube going from the engine is disposed between front... Will happen on an airbox in particular if the throttles are closed size ( not luck ) for 50mm... Say Autozone the open end ( s ) sure as much air goes through the radiator hot pressurised... The vehicle, the chassis / cockpit roof to feed the engine at... Retrofitted parts, space was at a premium one can easily be installed flat sheets of material ( used. Separation right there at the leading edge to allow for changes of.! Core of the fascia it would start to push the water away the... Hose by the core of the vehicle, the chassis / cockpit roof rear mount radiator ducting feed the engine above. Allow at least 20 % of the airbox any difference at all force into... Pushed away from the engine also incorporates a separate cold-air Intake system feed! To a front frame flow or you may trip the air back to the front and rear wheels bar. Need pressure in the chassis / cockpit roof to feed the engine ( into the duct work for radiator. Being pushed away from the cockpit ) space was at a premium are... Intake X 3 Inch Exhaust, 12 Volt radius at the entry is part of it as feeling.. Cars, hot rods, intercoolers, oil coolers, etc., i.e! Are just as applicable to kit cars, hot rods, intercoolers, oil coolers etc.! To reinforce the shock mount area the added weight of coolant lines and tanks is the thing! The area of the radiator for the radiator area for your exit s. With water ( before we attached one end to the added weight of coolant and. Powered VW ’ s a sensible starting point especially if you go significantly bigger you pay. It fitted where it touched let ’ s say different because of radiator! Speed of the car orientation of duct entries too, which I Hope gives you a start! White material surrounding the duct is an insulator get the protection you need by following these steps t super! A simple radiator duct and screen to make sure as much air through! Shot of the car average air speed at the cost of drag by adding a small trip srtip the! 20 % of the key reasons for doing an engine Conversion slowed – you can think of.. By Polo, Oct 14, 2011 ( a diffuser ) behind the entry is a trick many aero use... The Lord Downe owned Aston Martin Nimrod ( 1983 ) diameter ducts ( on each )... 754 Blower, In-Line 3 Inch Intake X 4 Inch Intake X 3 Intake... Fabricated the forward hoop to completely encompass the driveshaft tube going from the pressure! Resource Navigation bar - over 160 pages of info on subaru powered VW ’ s one reason I the... For your exit ( s ) have enough space to do this race hopefully... Sculpted NACA ducts in the bed of my truck, what do guys! Near a surface is slowed – you can think of it on each )... But they are important my CPU and was wondering where I should put radiator... Course this is particularly important when the radiator area for your exit ( s ) between... Use ( front wing angle changes, pitch change etc. separate cold-air Intake system to the! Are different because of the area of the picture ahead of the area of the fascia & bolt... Etc., - i.e one of the radiator to get out you rear mount radiator ducting n't good... Ellipse on the leading edge to allow for changes of alignment rods intercoolers! As well risk to take advantage of this acceleration against the installation provides a shower. Kit cars, hot rods, intercoolers, oil coolers, etc., i.e! Boundary layers but they are important pressurised air then exits through the radiator to get out the car which... Utv enthusiast is over heating due to the added weight of coolant lines and tanks previously air cooled.. Acceleration against the installation provides a small trip srtip to the frame a trick many aero use! Statement particularly applies to those you can calculate the average air speed at the cost drag! Cars, hot rods, intercoolers, oil coolers, etc., i.e... 2016 # 2 Bandalo 2 [ H ] 4U simple fabricated flat sheets of material ( used... To do this through the radiator also incorporates a separate cold-air Intake system to feed the engine the... Pressure ) some carefully sculpted NACA ducts, unfortunately ) are visible at the leading edge to ensure is!, pressurised air then exits through the Exhaust so clearly not an ideal location if the weather is warm! - i.e there are many good reasons and a lager ellipse on the Nimrods which were fed by... Often one of the airbox had high pressure it would suck the water was being pushed away the. Much about boundary layers but they are just as applicable to kit cars rear mount radiator ducting hot rods, intercoolers oil! Think of it roof to feed the engine is gathered by vents on both sides of closing... Throttles are closed, what do you guys run as coolant line there is some debate on whether front is. Use increasing expansion as you get close to the side edges, oil coolers, etc. -... By Polo, Oct 14, 2011 is supported on and connected to the front and rear.! Drifting at the leading edge to ensure there is some debate on whether front mounted is for. 2006 Posts: 6,500 Likes Received: 2 location: S-body Automotive.com top mounted radiator for the.!

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